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here_inmyheadOkay, I've watched all three versions of The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled, Princess & the Cobbler, and Arabian Knight. Here's my verdict:
Puri watched Recobbled first. 'Cause hey, gotta do justice to Richard Williams' original vision. It saddens me what the film had been through and I can understand Williams' sorrow for losing his lifelong dream project to Warner Bros. and it being warped into something cheap and forgettable just to score quick cash before Aladdin does. So Puri watched Recobbled, unfinished scenes, cuts and everything. A few of the animation sequences were absolutely gorgeous/funky, such as the shot with the roses, inside the One-Eyed's Mechanical Dragon, the checkerboard rooms, it's no wonder this film took so long to animate. oO;;;
Not to say I adored everything, though. Several scenes just seemed really drawn out and gratuitous to me. Sheesh, does it take the Thief that long just to get across a meadow? I didn't look forward to Zigzag consoling King Nod for 15 minutes either... geez, get back to the plot already. @.@;;; I wasn't that crazy about the witch either and got kinda bored, and later I was all, "Hey wait a minute, One-Eyes? Where the heck did they come from? Isn't Zigzag the main villain here? oO;;;" But I don't hold Recobbled too much at fault for this, especially since it was never finished and hence "cleaned up" for the final edition. Considering how important it was to find whatever cut of Willaims' original version we had, it was kind of necessary so we could see what went on behind the scenes. All that, you know, could have been... *nod* Some scenes to consider, others to dump...
But a few parts I was sad they cut out in the other versions, mainly 'cause ZOMG ADULT HUMOR or something. How many kids in the audience are gonna understand the "balls" swinging from the Thief's pants until they're 12-13? Nobody minded the quick scene in Aladdin where Jasmine got saved from having her hand slashed off. 'Sides, it gave the Thief a reason to get those back scratchers! They saved his fucking arms, man. :P Same with Tack defending himself when Zigzag tried to sic Phido on him. PWN'D BY IRON BALL
I didn't like how they changed the ending in the other two versions. It was like, "lulz, the thief handed the balls back and he promized never to steal agin haha". But in Recobbled, Thief was barely crawling out alive and the sky is black with smoke, and Tack's trying to take the balls from him, and in the end, Thief just glares at Tack and lets go. Kind of like he's thinking, "Go ahead. Take it. Too much trouble for what it's worth! >(" With him kinda grumbling and sulking that Puri found cute.And dude, bonus Tack nipple shot. *HOUSE'D!*
Music in Recobbled: Totally Epic. I wish they hadn't changed it and put in those stupid gratuitous Disney ripoff songs that had no significance to the plot whatsoever, even in the versions they were written for. :/ Speaking unneeded gratuity... why all the added cliches? Thief and the Cobbler was never a "royalty can't marry dudes from the street!" story. Especially since nobody freaks out over the ZOMG THE PRINCESS LOVES A COBBLER O SQUICK!!11!1 in the original, and it's even forgotten about after the beginning of Princess & the Cobbler and Arabian Night. Same with Princess Yum-Yum whining and complaining about how "there is a mind behind this pretty face" (Duuuuuuuuuuh. If there wasn't, you'd be an amoeba) and that she could be useful, added by the unneeded dialog that ZOMG YUM-YUM MUST MARRY SOMEONE PURE OF HEART!11!11 (Wow, so Tack can check out Yum-Yum's ass and still be pure? Sweet! :o) and King Nod bemoaning "IF ONLY I HAD A SON!!1!" (LULZ FEMINISM). Especially since everything Yum-Yum does is without applause 'cause *GASP* everyone respected her actions as the princess of the Golden City without any qualms about her gender in the original? I just find it stupid for the other two versions to add conflicts that weren't even there in the original story if they don't even centralize on these conflicts themselves. Same with making the Nanny a douchebag and having her find Tack/Yum-Yum squicky due to the Different Classes thing. I mean, god. Leave her be. Leave Tack be and let him be quiet without using shyness as an unnecessary "apology" for his behavior. (THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING INTROVERTED OR SHY. *cough* Back to the show)
I will say this though (and I'll likely be shot for this): Arabian Night >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Princess and the Cobbler. Yes, P&C conserved more scenes and didn't give Thief and Phido voiceovers. But the songs were PAINFUL and I hated Tack's voice. Yes, I knew he was going to speak in the other two versions. But between Matthew Broderick and CD-i Link as Tack ("Oh boy! I'm so hungry, I could eat a vegetarian!"), I'd MUCH rather have Broderick. Geez, at least Broderick was the one who made me melt when I saw the Arabian Knight commercial on a VHS tape aeons ago. At least Broderick could fucking act. So Tack is supposed to have one line. At least out of all the "...And I love you"s, Broderick's sounded the most in character and sincere to me. (Connery... let's say I consider him novelty factor. It's fun with me going "DO-DO-DO-DOOOOOOOOOO!" aka the Bond theme during the wedding kiss. :P) Hell, after my ears are bleeding from forced cliches, awful songs and terrible dialog, decent acting is the least I could hope for. I understand the Thief was supposed to be silent aka Wile E. Coyote style, but if you snip off some of the stating-the-obvious/explaining-the-scene-to-dumb-people lines, Jonathan Winters is fucking Hil. LAIR. EEE. Us. I remember cringing during the forever-and-ever sewer pipes scenes, but Winters made it funny and I actually looked forward to what the Thief had to "think" about his little predicament. :P (Puri's favorite line out of many: "Oh come on guys, I'm not tall enough to ride this ride! I get dizzy spells...and I'm pregnant!") It gives an added spark to the Thief's personality for me, and I see him as more than some guy with really bad hygiene. XDDD;;;It also helps that in Arabian Knight, Princess Yum-Yum doesn't sound like a bored prostitute. *BRICK'D!*
I can deal with Winters!Thief and Broderick!Tack (But dude. If his design was based off Charlie Chaplin, he should not speak until the end of the movie. But Broderick on the very last line, sure), but god, did we really need Phido to talk in Arabian Knight? Leave the squawking vulture be 'cause this is drawing the line of "Characters-That-Shalt-Not-Speaketh" here. Is it any wonder silent films like WALL-E gotten so popular? Albeit, it was the humans who did the communicating. But with the robots, they had keywords, gestures and actions. No chatterboxes here. Billions and billions of dialog =/= clever scripting and storytelling. Especially when several of those lines are cliched and corny to add in the first place. ("I've got to get back to the palace!" "No more tricks, sorcerer!" Just... ouch. Way to dumb down Tack and everyone else, guys. D: ) Apparently? P&C and Arabian Knight must think we're really stupid, because they gave away the best part of the movie. I'm talking when Tack topples the entire One-Eyes army and dragon mech with one shot. In Recobbled, nobody says a thing. We just watch as the One-Eyed Army collapse around us. (With Tack going oO;;; for himself, like he had no idea how he made this happen) In Arabian Night, it's like "OH. NOW I KNOW WHAT THE WITCH'S RIDDLE MEANT." The tack is shot. "AND ONE TACK IS ALL IT TOOK." DUDE. WAY TO KILL THE SUSPENSE. THAT'S LIKE TELLING US THE ENDING TO THE NEXT HARRY POTTER BOOK. THANKS A FUCKING LOT.
It's... geez. The only guy who left unscathed from all this was Vincent Price as Zigzag. God bless him. It's like this film could've been so much, could've been amazing, what Richard Williams could have imagined like with Roger Rabbit and more, but here it is, still on the cutting room floor, unlikely to be ever finished. Like ever. I could be in a rocking chair at 90 years old and they still wouldn't finish it. Or if it was when I turn 65, would I still care? Again... it's a sad story. Which is why I'm cautious about who I trust my work with.
Biggest moment of inspiration: after watching Recobbled, Puri had the urge to draw Tack. So she did a quick little sketch. Must be those memories I had as a little girl having a mini-crush on him from what little I saw and knew from the Miramax trailer as a kid. Perhaps it's a good thing I only saw that trailer and never saw Arabian Knight or Princess and the Cobbler; my childhood wouldn't have needed it. Especially not the heartbreak when you realize the adaption well... sucks. That you watch the Recobbled original, expected something amazing, but instead you're given something completely disorganized and broken. It's... sad. Disappointing really. Mainly because I worry so much that my own fanfiction and stories would end up like this, especially my original works. I know I don't deserve that, and well... Williams didn't either.
That said, I prefer Aladdin. Whether it's a "ripoff" or not, than damn at least Aladdin has a good storyline that doesn't make me go headdesky. Kind of amuses me too, especially since Williams was taught by several veteran Disney artists including Ollie Johnston, and animation fans along with Roy E. Disney initiated a high-quality restoration edit of the original Cobbler.
I'm being repetitive aren't I? We could play a drinking game based on how many times I use the word "sad" and "gratuitous" with its synonyms. No wonder I consider "Edward Scissorhands" to be Vincent Price's "true" "final role" rather than this movie. Now just keeping on talking about it is making me depressed. :( I never liked wasted potential. Why aren't there enough animation companies in the world? Why can't there be more people who appreciate animation as a medium of storytelling and not a "genre" for kids or 30-year-old guys living in their moms' basement?
Puri watched Recobbled first. 'Cause hey, gotta do justice to Richard Williams' original vision. It saddens me what the film had been through and I can understand Williams' sorrow for losing his lifelong dream project to Warner Bros. and it being warped into something cheap and forgettable just to score quick cash before Aladdin does. So Puri watched Recobbled, unfinished scenes, cuts and everything. A few of the animation sequences were absolutely gorgeous/funky, such as the shot with the roses, inside the One-Eyed's Mechanical Dragon, the checkerboard rooms, it's no wonder this film took so long to animate. oO;;;
Not to say I adored everything, though. Several scenes just seemed really drawn out and gratuitous to me. Sheesh, does it take the Thief that long just to get across a meadow? I didn't look forward to Zigzag consoling King Nod for 15 minutes either... geez, get back to the plot already. @.@;;; I wasn't that crazy about the witch either and got kinda bored, and later I was all, "Hey wait a minute, One-Eyes? Where the heck did they come from? Isn't Zigzag the main villain here? oO;;;" But I don't hold Recobbled too much at fault for this, especially since it was never finished and hence "cleaned up" for the final edition. Considering how important it was to find whatever cut of Willaims' original version we had, it was kind of necessary so we could see what went on behind the scenes. All that, you know, could have been... *nod* Some scenes to consider, others to dump...
But a few parts I was sad they cut out in the other versions, mainly 'cause ZOMG ADULT HUMOR or something. How many kids in the audience are gonna understand the "balls" swinging from the Thief's pants until they're 12-13? Nobody minded the quick scene in Aladdin where Jasmine got saved from having her hand slashed off. 'Sides, it gave the Thief a reason to get those back scratchers! They saved his fucking arms, man. :P Same with Tack defending himself when Zigzag tried to sic Phido on him. PWN'D BY IRON BALL
I didn't like how they changed the ending in the other two versions. It was like, "lulz, the thief handed the balls back and he promized never to steal agin haha". But in Recobbled, Thief was barely crawling out alive and the sky is black with smoke, and Tack's trying to take the balls from him, and in the end, Thief just glares at Tack and lets go. Kind of like he's thinking, "Go ahead. Take it. Too much trouble for what it's worth! >(" With him kinda grumbling and sulking that Puri found cute.
Music in Recobbled: Totally Epic. I wish they hadn't changed it and put in those stupid gratuitous Disney ripoff songs that had no significance to the plot whatsoever, even in the versions they were written for. :/ Speaking unneeded gratuity... why all the added cliches? Thief and the Cobbler was never a "royalty can't marry dudes from the street!" story. Especially since nobody freaks out over the ZOMG THE PRINCESS LOVES A COBBLER O SQUICK!!11!1 in the original, and it's even forgotten about after the beginning of Princess & the Cobbler and Arabian Night. Same with Princess Yum-Yum whining and complaining about how "there is a mind behind this pretty face" (Duuuuuuuuuuh. If there wasn't, you'd be an amoeba) and that she could be useful, added by the unneeded dialog that ZOMG YUM-YUM MUST MARRY SOMEONE PURE OF HEART!11!11 (Wow, so Tack can check out Yum-Yum's ass and still be pure? Sweet! :o) and King Nod bemoaning "IF ONLY I HAD A SON!!1!" (LULZ FEMINISM). Especially since everything Yum-Yum does is without applause 'cause *GASP* everyone respected her actions as the princess of the Golden City without any qualms about her gender in the original? I just find it stupid for the other two versions to add conflicts that weren't even there in the original story if they don't even centralize on these conflicts themselves. Same with making the Nanny a douchebag and having her find Tack/Yum-Yum squicky due to the Different Classes thing. I mean, god. Leave her be. Leave Tack be and let him be quiet without using shyness as an unnecessary "apology" for his behavior. (THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING INTROVERTED OR SHY. *cough* Back to the show)
I will say this though (and I'll likely be shot for this): Arabian Night >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Princess and the Cobbler. Yes, P&C conserved more scenes and didn't give Thief and Phido voiceovers. But the songs were PAINFUL and I hated Tack's voice. Yes, I knew he was going to speak in the other two versions. But between Matthew Broderick and CD-i Link as Tack ("Oh boy! I'm so hungry, I could eat a vegetarian!"), I'd MUCH rather have Broderick. Geez, at least Broderick was the one who made me melt when I saw the Arabian Knight commercial on a VHS tape aeons ago. At least Broderick could fucking act. So Tack is supposed to have one line. At least out of all the "...And I love you"s, Broderick's sounded the most in character and sincere to me. (Connery... let's say I consider him novelty factor. It's fun with me going "DO-DO-DO-DOOOOOOOOOO!" aka the Bond theme during the wedding kiss. :P) Hell, after my ears are bleeding from forced cliches, awful songs and terrible dialog, decent acting is the least I could hope for. I understand the Thief was supposed to be silent aka Wile E. Coyote style, but if you snip off some of the stating-the-obvious/explaining-the-scene-to-dumb-people lines, Jonathan Winters is fucking Hil. LAIR. EEE. Us. I remember cringing during the forever-and-ever sewer pipes scenes, but Winters made it funny and I actually looked forward to what the Thief had to "think" about his little predicament. :P (Puri's favorite line out of many: "Oh come on guys, I'm not tall enough to ride this ride! I get dizzy spells...and I'm pregnant!") It gives an added spark to the Thief's personality for me, and I see him as more than some guy with really bad hygiene. XDDD;;;
I can deal with Winters!Thief and Broderick!Tack (But dude. If his design was based off Charlie Chaplin, he should not speak until the end of the movie. But Broderick on the very last line, sure), but god, did we really need Phido to talk in Arabian Knight? Leave the squawking vulture be 'cause this is drawing the line of "Characters-That-Shalt-Not-Speaketh" here. Is it any wonder silent films like WALL-E gotten so popular? Albeit, it was the humans who did the communicating. But with the robots, they had keywords, gestures and actions. No chatterboxes here. Billions and billions of dialog =/= clever scripting and storytelling. Especially when several of those lines are cliched and corny to add in the first place. ("I've got to get back to the palace!" "No more tricks, sorcerer!" Just... ouch. Way to dumb down Tack and everyone else, guys. D: ) Apparently? P&C and Arabian Knight must think we're really stupid, because they gave away the best part of the movie. I'm talking when Tack topples the entire One-Eyes army and dragon mech with one shot. In Recobbled, nobody says a thing. We just watch as the One-Eyed Army collapse around us. (With Tack going oO;;; for himself, like he had no idea how he made this happen) In Arabian Night, it's like "OH. NOW I KNOW WHAT THE WITCH'S RIDDLE MEANT." The tack is shot. "AND ONE TACK IS ALL IT TOOK." DUDE. WAY TO KILL THE SUSPENSE. THAT'S LIKE TELLING US THE ENDING TO THE NEXT HARRY POTTER BOOK. THANKS A FUCKING LOT.
It's... geez. The only guy who left unscathed from all this was Vincent Price as Zigzag. God bless him. It's like this film could've been so much, could've been amazing, what Richard Williams could have imagined like with Roger Rabbit and more, but here it is, still on the cutting room floor, unlikely to be ever finished. Like ever. I could be in a rocking chair at 90 years old and they still wouldn't finish it. Or if it was when I turn 65, would I still care? Again... it's a sad story. Which is why I'm cautious about who I trust my work with.
Biggest moment of inspiration: after watching Recobbled, Puri had the urge to draw Tack. So she did a quick little sketch. Must be those memories I had as a little girl having a mini-crush on him from what little I saw and knew from the Miramax trailer as a kid. Perhaps it's a good thing I only saw that trailer and never saw Arabian Knight or Princess and the Cobbler; my childhood wouldn't have needed it. Especially not the heartbreak when you realize the adaption well... sucks. That you watch the Recobbled original, expected something amazing, but instead you're given something completely disorganized and broken. It's... sad. Disappointing really. Mainly because I worry so much that my own fanfiction and stories would end up like this, especially my original works. I know I don't deserve that, and well... Williams didn't either.
I'm being repetitive aren't I? We could play a drinking game based on how many times I use the word "sad" and "gratuitous" with its synonyms. No wonder I consider "Edward Scissorhands" to be Vincent Price's "true" "final role" rather than this movie. Now just keeping on talking about it is making me depressed. :( I never liked wasted potential. Why aren't there enough animation companies in the world? Why can't there be more people who appreciate animation as a medium of storytelling and not a "genre" for kids or 30-year-old guys living in their moms' basement?
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no subject
Date: 2008-12-13 06:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-13 08:35 pm (UTC)I woulda loved to see more of the old witch in the "finished" ones, though.
"P&C and Arabian Knight must think we're really stupid, because they gave away the best part of the movie. I'm talking when Tack topples the entire One-Eyes army and dragon mech with one shot. In Recobbled, nobody says a thing. We just watch as the One-Eyed Army collapse around us. (With Tack going oO;;; for himself, like he had no idea how he made this happen) In Arabian Night, it's like "OH. NOW I KNOW WHAT THE WITCH'S RIDDLE MEANT." The tack is shot. "AND ONE TACK IS ALL IT TOOK." DUDE. WAY TO KILL THE SUSPENSE. THAT'S LIKE TELLING US THE ENDING TO THE NEXT HARRY POTTER BOOK. THANKS A FUCKING LOT."
LOL, I actually LIKED that XD
But I suppose my opinion would be a bit biased~
no subject
Date: 2008-12-14 12:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-14 12:26 pm (UTC)I think it's a terrible shame that the movie was so rushed and awkwardly produced. It was a shame that Aladdin was produced and marketed at around the same time, because I saw both and still loved The Princess and the Cobbler, despite marketing concerns that Aladdin would pwn the smaller movie. It was the princess and the cobbler that I was drawing awkward, sloppy little girl fanarts of for weeks after I'd seen it. It's a pity I never got to grow up with the originally intended themes, because the ReCobbled stuff is gorgeous.
...Most of my adoration for that movie probably came from a crush on Tack, though.
On your point of animation, have you ever heard of Studio Fantome? They were an early nineties French animation studio and did a lot of their stuff in 3d. While the 3d looks really dodgy nowerdays, for a smaller independant studio for the time period, their stuff was amazing. Their biggest production was Insektors (I strongly reccommend downloading if you're interested: http://insektors.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=episodedownloads&action=display&thread=190), which got enough exposure to be adapted into two dubbed versions, much like the Thief and the Cobbler. Despite its popularity, the studio folded a few years later because the industry was too difficult to compete in whilst still making a worthwhile income. I guess it all depends on which animation giants are dominating and defining the medium at the time. I found Insektors, particularly the NA version, to be far more mature than the rest of animations aimed at children at the time. But that's just my opinion.
no subject
Date: 2008-12-15 11:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-12-15 04:47 pm (UTC)Did I ever tell you that I love your wordthings? :D
I admit to being a shallow person, because I will always love the one with Winters!Theif over anything else the other versions offered. Not because of storylines or anything, I just....really like his jokes. A few of them were silly, but some lines (like the 'pregnant' one)? Classic. :D
no subject
Date: 2008-12-15 11:06 pm (UTC)If I had my way, I'd take the best out of Recobbled and Arabian Night and fuse them together. Winters!Thief being a definite keeper. X33
no subject
Date: 2008-12-16 06:17 am (UTC)Wordthings. Because the internet doesn't show talking icons next to your typed stuff yet. In the future, filled with flying cars and Cajuns who use cards as explosives, I may be able to use my more well known quote of affection 'I love your face!' but as there is no face to see, your wordthings must suffice.
(If you're wondering about the jump from vehicles to comic book character references, it involves a misplaced 'd' and a mental connection that Should Not Have Happened.)
Keep some of the Broderick!Tack maybe too? Just enough. None of the voiceover (I love you Matthew but...no.) and the song....maybe....but the little moments.
And get back the greedy 'You know what? Screw you guys!' Thief moment. :D Because really, those balls are not comparable to a summer's day after about five minutes alone with them. Winter headcold is closer, what with all the pounding.